Non Profit Marketing Interview With Donnie Baker

I first met Donnie Baker after he contacted me to volunteer with the Boston Chapter of the American Marketing Association, of which I am the current president. Not only was he willing to volunteer, but he shared with me his passion for nonprofit marketing. Donnie is now the director of the non profit shared interest group at the Boston Chapter of the American Marketing Association. I thought I’d interview him for “PR Communications” to learn more about his nonprofit marketing interest.

John: Tell me a little about your background, how did you come to work with non profit marketing?

Donnie: I started working with nonprofits as a direct service volunteer, and then that migrated into design consulting. Initially, I worked with mostly social service organizations and some health organizations but I have since worked with all types of nonprofits.

My undergraduate degree is in graphic design and advertising but my passion is to help small organizations who offer critical services to the world and our communities to be able to most effectively market themselves. My commitment to the sector evolved organically, beginning with print and web design consulting and then growing into a small business, PureVisual, Inc.

During initial meetings with new clients, I would assess their needs and investigate their audiences and organizational marketing plan and how it related to the design project at hand. Predominantly clients did not have a plan or if they did, it was not based in research.

I learned early as a graphic designer, that design without purpose and effectiveness is pointless, and in order to establish these measures it must be based in research and strategy — in marketing. Marketing at its core, is very simple. In order to market anything, whether it be a can of coke or a public service, you must first understand the markets that you are trying to market to.

Design is simply a marketing tool in the same way that advertising and public relations are.

John: Did you gain any training in nonprofit marketing as an undergrad?

Donnie: Not directly, my interest and understanding in nonprofit marketing has grown considerably during my master’s degree work. I am currently completing my thesis in nonprofit marketing management entitled, "Nonprofit Marketing Management: Developing Informational Resources and Training to Support Efficient and Effective Communications Product Development.” My thesis is still in the drafting stage and being reviewed by my advisory team, I hope to have it complete and made public by May. During the research for my thesis I conducted more than 20 interviews with nonprofit managers in the Boston area concerning their organization’s marketing processes and also resources, both current and desired. This process helped answer my hypothesis that the need is great for marketing assistance and resources within the nonprofit community.

John: You've mentioned that many nonprofits don't understand marketing, why is that?

Donnie: Nonprofits equate marketing to communicating, “if we tell them how great of a cause we are, they will be compelled to support us.” This concept of marketing is devoid of research. Nonprofits have historically relied on their own boards and volunteers to gain understanding of their constituents, assuming that because they have a "diverse" group of volunteers, that they have done their homework. Nonprofits simply do not get the point of doing research. They sometimes conduct research indirectly by utilizing program evaluations but rarely are the findings applied to make necessary improvements. Research and the application of research, is imperative to effective marketing and communications.

For example, I am currently working with a small nonprofit youth program on the North Shore (north of Boston) to produce a marketing and communications plan. The organization originally approached me to design "promotional materials,” but I insisted that prior to product development we would need to build a marketing and communications plan. We began with a PEEST analysis (environmental scan). We then moved into a review of their competitors. I am currently conducting brief qualitative interviews with approximately twelve people, who represent a mix of their constituents, both previous participants and potential participants. Although this has been a fairly basic process, the organization has already reported that it has greatly helped them with the work of other programs. They specifically stated that the process has encouraged them to think more strategically and to more carefully consider both internal and external perspectives.

Nonprofits by their nature tend to be internally focused. One of my colleagues shared a good example of this recently. He was formerly the executive director of a housing program for AIDS patients and their families in Boston. It was founded in the early 80's, when their clients were mostly white gay males. In recent years; however, the landscape has dramatically changed, now their clients are mostly women of color some of who speak very little English. They have experienced many problems with their programs because of their inability to respond to the unique needs of this new customer base. Having a marketing focus would have helped this organization identify and plan for this change prior to it becoming a crisis.

Another contributing factor is that nonprofit boards are made up of volunteers and often lack the ability to be nimble. It takes a lot of effort and energy to change and that's more than already busy volunteers are easily willing to do. Change needs to happen at the foundation and funder levels to put more pressure on the nonprofit boards to manage more strategically. The more emphasis there is on demonstrating ROI or SROI, the more nonprofits will be encouraged to conduct preliminary and post research. Nonprofits don’t have the resources for second chances; they only have one shot. They cannot afford to assume! This is what motivates me to do more to support and empower them.

John: What do you want to see happen in the field of nonprofit marketing?

Donnie:

1) It starts with management, if the board doesn't get understand the value of marketing, the organization isn’t going to get it. There has to be a commitment to having a marketing focus from the top down.

2) They need support and encouragement from the foundations and funders. It costs money to make money and in the case of nonprofits, it takes money to spend yours effectively (meaning a potential funder’s). So funders need to support nonprofits doing things smarter. Larger nonprofits and some foundations are starting to lead the way in this movement, towards a more strategic management style, but the smaller organizations have a long hard road ahead, and I hope to support them through this tough process, or I fear that many of them will not survive. There are many simple methods for conducting research by empowering volunteers that can be very successful with a “no or low” budget.

3) Nonprofits need resources and these resources need to be accessible and scalable. I hope to help create these resources.

John: You are now director of the AMA nonprofit marketing shared interest group, what plans do you have for this group?

Donnie: It is a multi-level plan. At the highest level, I want to encourage more conversation about nonprofit marketing, showcasing that it is not simply a stepchild of traditional marketing but a unique and growing field. Secondly is to create community. Nonprofit Marketers and their friends need methods of networking and building relationships. Thirdly, provide education and training through workshops and hopefully a tools-based resource center.

I have worked with the volunteers who expressed interest in helping to build this initiative one on one to gain a better understanding of what each person hopes to add to the process and gain from their involvement. There are currently ten volunteers, and our first planning meeting is this week. We will be establishing a vision, mission, reviewing goals and determining the best methods to meet these goals. Already, four organizations have contacted me regarding the SIG since the January kick-off meeting to request marketing assistance. I will present each of these requests to the group for volunteers and to also encourage the group to work hard to get the “mentor match-up” and “board bank” up and running. My hope is by early summer, but the group will have to set the final schedule. I want every nonprofit to know that this group exist and to be able to meet every request with a helping hand for support and resources.

John: What are you doing today? And where do you want to be in six month's time in your personal career?

Donnie: In addition to completing my thesis I am in the midst of a job-search. I am seeking a cause/nonprofit marketing management position. In six months I hope to be employed, my thesis complete and working on the SIG’s Nonprofit Marketing conference, tentatively scheduled for late October.

John: Tell me what you have planned for the nonprofit marketing conference.

Donnie: For the conference my research shows that nonprofit managers are seeking more specifics and fewer generalizations. Nonprofit managers want to hear from people who understand their specific work, meaning type of organizations: social focus, arts focus, education, etc. And managers want training to be scalable, not Red Cross for soup kitchen, but successful soup kitchen talking to struggling soup kitchen. And they want real examples. Managers also want to have a chance to be heard, and discuss their unique problems not just talked to. Managers want to walk away with something tangible that they can put into practice immediately, not when they receive a million dollar grant.

This translates into a roll-up your sleeves; get your hands dirty kind of conference. With less emphasis on keynotes and more on application, and the group will be working hard to build partnerships with major nonprofit groups to ensure that offerings are relevant and interesting, not just what we assume they need.

John: Thanks Donnie for the interview!